Creeds and Confessions, Part 2

Nov 13, 2011

The Apostles’ Creed, line by line

Here again is a possibly useful link:  PC USA on Confessions

The creeds/confessions are here

We discussed the Apostle’s Creed, line by line.  Here are some of the questions we addressed:

1.  “I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.”

- What was there before God, before the creation?

- What did the writers of the creed mean by 'heaven'?  Were they talking

about the sky or the place you go when you die?

 - What does it mean when it says that God is creator of the earth?  What idea or ideas do you think the writers were trying to counteract? 

2.  “I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,”

- What does "Lord" mean here - is the Lord that Larry referred to in his

sermon last week, or something else?  (Larry’s sermon noted that in the Old Testament text the uppercase Lord was used for the word ‘YHVH’, and Lord was used for other references to God.)

- What does it mean to say “Jesus is Lord”?  

3.  “who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary,”

-  what does “born of the Virgin Mary” say about Jesus?  Jesus is fully human.

- Is belief in the 'virgin birth' was necessary to our belief in the 'rest of the story' I.e. Salvation through Christ etc etc

4. “suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried;”

- Who was Pontius Pilate?

- Who was Herod?

- By bringing Pontius Pilate into it, were the writers of the creed implying that Jesus’ life took place in history?

- Why do you think the writers of the creed wrote, "crucified, died, and was buried." ?  

- it is interesting that the creed goes from “born of the Virgin Mary” to “suffered under Pontius Pilate” – what about Jesus’ life?  

Creeds and Confessions, Part 1

Nov 6, 2011, led by Jon Draskovic

What is the purpose of the creeds and confessions?  The creeds and confessions are an expression of the essential tenets of the Presbyterian Church.

According to the class, the essential tenets of our faith are:

- sin and confession of sin

- Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior

- We are saved by grace alone (through faith)

- Trinity – God, Son, Holy Spirit

- Scripture – the Bible is the word of God

- forgiveness

- the church is a community of believers

The creeds and confessions are drawn out of scripture, which itself points to Jesus.

The creeds bring up a tension between the freedom of an individual’s conscience versus the integrity of the community’s past (as expressed in the creeds and confessions).

The creeds allow us to not have to rethink every part of the essential tenets of the faith.  We can also apply our thinking to new problems, for instance, cloning.

By contrast, what are non-essentials?

Some culturally nuanced parts of scripture – for instance, that women should cover their heads – we now consider these to be non-essential to the faith.  Another example: alcohol – some churches say NO to alcohol; others incorporate it. 

What are the creeds and confessions of the Presbyterian Church (USA)?

The PC USA has 10 different confessions because each emphasizes different points. For instance, the Barmen Declaration came about during Nazi Germany.

2 universal confessions:

The Apostle’s Creed (2^nd century) and the Nicene Creed (325 AD / 381 AD).

Both of these focus on the Trinity and on Jesus as the incarnation of God.

6 confessions/catechisms arose from the Protestant Reformation:

The Scots, Second Helvetic, and Westminster Confessions; and all three of our catechisms (the Heidelberg and the Westminster Shorter and Larger Catechisms).

The most recent creeds/confessions are

Declaration of Barmen, Confession of 1967, and A Brief Statement of Faith.

Some of the themes of these confessions are:

- God’s sovereignty

- Election

- Faithful stewardship of God’s creation

- We are sinful beings

- Necessity of obedience to word of God to work for justice

Going back to the tension between the individual’s conscience and the community’s integrity, a question: What if you find you disagree with one part of a creed?

- turn to the community and discuss it

- hang on to the salvation by grace

- the creeds are the church’s statement of faith, not a personal statement of faith

- honor the struggle that comes with the faith

This might be a helpful link:  PCUSA on Confessions